Ahhh...

I'm taking this at evolutionary standpoint. And from evolutionary standpoint pleasure and happiness isn't a purpose. It is about survival. Eating, drinking, sleeping, playing, sex is all survival first pleasure second. I could actually say the same thing about eating and drinking for demons.

Also, sex IS for procreation. You don't need sex for intimacy and sharing... which is against the nature of demons. Nor do you need it for fun and pleasure. Just like eating is for nourishing, and drinking is for hydrating. Yes, they are pleasurable too, but they existence doesn't come to be because of pleasure. There is an actual need for them. Take them away; say if humans can't breed, eat or drink; and they would cease to exist. Not the same with demons. No eating? Just fine. No drinking? They won't die from thirst. No sex? Who needs babies?

In fact, indulging in them primarily for pleasure results to multiple of problems. Eating for pleasure causes various problems like being overweight, gout and malnourishment. Drinking? Common cause for traffic accidents. Sex is a bit more insidious. The most pressing is the spread of diseases like gonorrhea, syphilis and HIV/AIDS. The less acknowledged problem is infertility which is quite ironic.

Also, I thought that demons don't feel pain. That what you feel is just illusion. In fact, its quite difficult to make demons feel pain. You could hit a demon with a four by four and it would not even tickle. It really required great effort or special abilities to be able to hurn one of them, even to weak ones.

Also how would booze and drugs affect demons? I mean, demons have very different physiology from other creatures. They don't even have real body for Pete's sake. Then how could booze and drugs even have effect? Don't you think that just sounds absurd?

@The Author Guy

Well, when we first meet Antefalken, he stated that he is 753 years old. Chapter 33.

@Tizzy

Thanks. I'll check it out.

Edited by user Thursday, February 26, 2015 12:33:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Sweet, thanks on the 753...I had a terrible time finding it again. Suspected he'd said it but couldn't find the exact number.

On the sex part, jumping in since Tizzy isn't around. Assuming that the majority of demons were once adult humans, they would have known about the pleasures of sex and wanted to recreate it in their demonic life. And clearly, the summoners being fascinated by the dark side of sex and violence, which demons are the personifications of, they too would expect demons to be sex fiends. Notice the term "sex fiend" it's not as theoretical as one might think.

Sex and the temptation of sex is a huge part of human morality; in fact a cornerstone of it for many religions. If demons are all about corruption, sin, temptation and the darker passions of mankind, then demons are almost required by their very nature to be sexual beings, and in particular they represent unbridled sexuality with out the fear of pregnancy.

Sex for anything other than procreation is a sin in many simpler religions (including the older catholic church teachings--and some today) thus demons must be all for it.

You can't expect a demon to be the poster child for lust and damnation, if they don't practice it.

But again,not all demons are that sexual.

And, I have to say your discussions on other pleasures are practically foreshadowing a significant story line in book ii. (not sex per se--but your associated arguments) I.e. I actually have quite a bit to say about this in book ii--as I do with demons and sex regarding the Incubus.

Of course on the other hand, reversing 180, I think the point you might be making Rosver is this: Tom doesn't seem to have much interest in sex. Well maybe without a pressing need, and having no biological need to have sex, it just isn't something he's thinking about. No hormones, no real sex drive. Other demons, who've been around forever are seeking passions/diversions to spice things up. Tom's life is spicy enough without such unnecessary distractions. I think that's a valid point.

Not immediately, but I've been thinking a lot about "Tales of the Demon Bard" and his history and also what Antefalken knows and doesn't know about history.

he's a bard, so he knows a lot of history, but how much has he experienced? Or happened during his lifetime?

We know, for example, that he composed the the Battle of Vizenheim, so presumably he was there.

But would he have been around, or known about, the last time the Rod surrounded Freehold to stop a demonic invasion in 1226, 768 years ago, apparently not. :)

Well, they aren't sages, but they repeat history.

You need to go back a bit more in time I think. Bards, as a particular example celtic bards are the carriers and holders of oral history.

It is they who sing the songs that tell people their history.

There is a reason they call Shakespeare "The Bard" because, yes, he entertains people with commedies and tragedies, but equally important were the history plays such as Richard III. For a public that is either largely illiterate, or if literate, than seriously lacking in reading material, plays and before that bards were how people learned history. Shakespeare is not sung, but it is poetry. So when they call this playwright, "the bard" they are hearkening back to an older tradition of Welsh, Irish, Scottish etc bards that were keepers of history.

Poetry and song are important in illiterate cultures because poetry is much easier to memorize than prose. If you look at early literature it's almost all poetry and this is because it had to be memorized and recited and passed on from generation to generation. It wasn't until after the printing press that we started getting a lot of prose (other than the bible of course)

So whether you call the person a bard, troubador, balladeer or minstral is I think somewhat historically and culturally dependent. I.e. which culture and when are we talking about.

Yes, Antefalken does actually make money penning theme songs and paens to demon lords, but he also composes ballads and sings them to entertain and inform people.

So anyway, beyond that in Astlan, bard is something of a generic term that wraps up a rather wide "set of professions" just as there are different types of animages, wizards, druids etc, there are different types of bards. I will be going into this starting in book ii but spinning out more in later books. We will see a lot more of bards in future works (include Tales of the Demon Bard)

There are, you should note, btw, "Spell Singers" or "Bardic Wizards" which are sonic oriented mana wielders.

Exactly!

That's why I said Spell Singer. Now, it's not exactly the same, but on a genre level it is comparable.

There are a couple different schools of bardic magic some involve "singing runes" and/or certain intonations/frequencies of voice and instrument.

Not going to go into the full detail here, it might be in the Library...but I am not sure I've posted it.

The thing you need to keep in mind, this book and Astlan is not based on the medieval world, it's based on the stereotypical/idealized fantasy world.

I.e. bards/troubadours/minstrels whatever they might have been on earth are not the basis for these bards.

Bards in Astlan are based on a combination of

1) Tabletop RPG bards: D&D, Arduin, Tunnels & Tolls, Swords & Sorcery, ICE, and most importantly: ANIMUS 'THE GAME YOU'VE BEEN TRAINING YOUR ENTIRE LIFE FOR
2) Book bards: Spell Singer and maybe half a dozen other ones.
3) Movies/Pop Culture
4) Some actual historical figures


I'm not really aware of any video game bards...so I'm not going to include that. Oooh Guitar Hero meets World of Warcraft! Or Guitar Hero meets Diablo IV

Wow! Your concept is quite exciting.

Its new though isn't it? Not a shred of it is present in the first book. It would have been great though if it was given even just a passing nod in the first book.

"The thing you need to keep in mind, this book and Astlan is not based on the medieval world, it's based on the stereotypical/idealized fantasy world."

Well, that is kinda weird. With castles, keeps, knights, plate armor, Nobles (Barons), that psuedo latin, bards... I was quite sure that Astlan is heavily based on medieval world. Also stereotypical/idealized fantasy world is medieval fantasy. It is the one you see in most fantasy games and literature.

To give contrast, compare yours to Ancient Greek/Roman Mythology worlds. Or Arabian fantasy world. Or the Asian inspired world of Avatar: The Legend of Aang, the Last Air Bender.

Actually, Tizzy and I had already discussed this.



So, with all the excitement, we are going to have a Spell Singer as a character?
I kinda like the Spell Singer serries (well, the first few) and having a similar character in Astlan sounds so exciting! Lets see some Tom vs Spell Singer battle!

@The Author Guy

I understand what you are saying. And as far as I could tell, yours is based more in game versions of medieval fantasy. Games tend to distort the medieval world too much. Medieval world in literature tends to be accurate enough in many aspects, and many authors work for it to be so, not so in games.



1) We will meet this person in Book 2? Does this also means that Tom might go to Oorstemoth? If Tom is to actually meet this person you know.
2) You don't actually meet that person. Just because you bump into someone or this someone passed your field of vision doesn't mean you meet that person. Meeting requires some social interaction usually get acquainted with.
3) Hmmm. Lots of people singing eulogies for their patrons.

Ballads and such is doubtful in its historical accuracy. It would be passed from person to person and each person would embellish it somehow. There are a large number of versions of a single ballad and historians has to sift through them.

Though I doubt that bards can read. It is very rare to find people who can read in medieval times. Even the nobles can't read (or write), so why would bards be? People unable to write and read is the reason why they have poetry and ballads and other stuff is popular in the first place.

3) I was just joking. It is quite clear that your Bards isn't the typical medieval bard (which often are background characters) but quite a tour de force apparently.

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Hmmm. Xanth... can't say it is medieval though. It has medieval elements yes, but a large part of it is non medieval. The stories also doesn't focus much on the medieval elements. Most of the medieval elements reside with the human side/community of Xanth, however, the stories often just follows characters wandering off somewhere and those somewheres isn't medieval. Xanth is more of a hodge podge with little of anything cohesive.

Disney isn't really very focused on its story world, most of it staying in the background (like Snow White), though they still get it fine enough even with the artistic license. The most detailed medieval world they made (for me) is in Robin Hood, and I think they got it mostly right even if it was populated by anthropomorphic animals.

I can't tell with the others because I haven't seen them. That would be one thing I should ought to look at.

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Wait. You tried to make an RPG? You are more awesome than I thought . Yes, you didn't finish it but it is still awesome.

What game engine did you use or plan to use? Or did you code from scratch? Or did you even started to write the program? Is it 2D or 3D (probably 2D but just want to ask)? Is the story finished even if the game is not?

It would be neat if we could see some of the game art that you had made.

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Really, don't be too restrained by this. I don't really want you to be accurate to every detail especially if being inaccurate means more awesome story. Just keep the awesome part right.

Wow, that is such a long long time ago.

I have a very little skill in programming, all of it I learn in school. I still have interest in softwares but mostly in using them instead of programming one. Might try to pick it again though. It seems to be a very important skill to have nowdays.

You're a demon too? Hmmm...

Tizzy did said that he visited the Mayan Civilization.