@Lenamare

I know you are, but what am I?

Sticks and Stones Can't Break My Bones, and only My True Name can hurt me!

I am rubber and you are snotty goo, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!

At least I have FRIENDS!

Have you read the book? Everyone thinks you are a stuck up egotistical jerk!

Cause you are!

@Lenamare:

That is why I add the "I guess" part in my statement. There aren't really much of reliable source about demons here.

@Tizzy:

Go Tizzy! Go Tizzy!

@Maou:



That doesn't mean they would be super strong and powerful. As the book had said, only a few numbers of demons could actually manipulate mana and so do magic. If it is as the book says, only the most powerful leverl 4 and level 5 and 6 demons could do magic. Based on the numbers given by the book, the number of these mana manipulating demons is just in two digits, maybe somewhere around 60. That is way very few.



Ow! Did you really just say that? Maybe I had to pull up some quotes to illustrate the realationship between success and failure:

"Winners are not afraid of losing. But losers are. Failure is part of the process of success. People who avoid failure also avoid success."

"If you’re not prepared to be wrong, you’ll never come up with anything original."

"Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat. It is a temporary detour, not a dead end. Failure is something we can avoid only by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing."

"I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work."



Huh? I just can't any sense out of this statement. I think it means, the hospital of mentaly insane is a place of great innovation?



First, demons are immortal, they are very very difficult to kill. Demons staying alive is actually less surprising than demons being dead. Staying alive is what immortals are best known for, being dead... not so much.

As for coincidence, that may be true in real life but this is a book, it thrives in it. And the atypical skill, or more appropriately ability, your talking about is the skill of regenerating back even if you cut Tizzy to millions of pieces. A thing which every demons is capable of.

@Rosver:



I did not mean this to mean they can't grow any stronger, I simply meant it to mean they may not grow stronger naturally anymore. Experience, study, and training will still allow them to grow further, but at this point they will generally grow at a much slower rate.



Here I simply meant that most true leaps forward are made by those with fluid mindsets who can think outside of the box that the average person would view a situation from. This does however lead to those with a different view of the world as to being labeled insane as people don't typically like people who think differently than them as much as those who think like them. These people will try new things and if successful they will be hailed as a genius, but if they fail they will be labeled as a nutjob for trying to accomplish the impossible.


Again he views things from a seperate point of view. He still lacks the perception of the world that many native Astlanians have and this alternative means of interpretation could lead to a few new aspects of magic being uncovered and could lead to a difference in how he chooses to wield said magic in a different way.



While demons are immortal, they can be killed. It is the reason why many demons rarely fight somebody of a higher rank, sure they could torture you, but a more powerful demon could torture you, but a more powerful demon might permanently end a weaker demon simply due to annoyance as we might swat a fly. Demons do often stay alive for long periods of time, but they are on occasion killed by wizards, holy orders, and other demons. Demons are not true immortals. They can be killed, not be age or illness, but by spells or anything else that could destroy their manabody or soul.

The regenerative ability is well known so should one purposefully decide to kill a demon it is not impossible to overcome. As for coincidence, their is plenty in the book, however in most instances it has been used for humor, to fuel paranoia, or both. Many books have to much coincidence to be believable. This is a work of fantasy, but to have a destined coincidentally fulfill many obscure events only to have them be important later is strange. Not every one you meet will have an impact on your life later. Also proper villains would kill the heroes instead of giving them multiple multiple near death situations. Instead of letting a future threat roam free they would stab them in the face. They would not give a speech and then set them free, but simply kill them.

Edited by user Monday, September 1, 2014 9:21:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

@Tizzy:

He he! Maou started it.

@Maou:

No! That is not what I mean also. The book itself describes the demons level of abilities to be static. When the demon is level 1 they stay at that level. When they are level 5 they stay at that level too. They don't get stronger or weaker. They just don't change.

This is not what most people really thinks/reacts nor was things really this simple. You might be overgeneralizing things too much.

First, you say that that failure leads to insanity. Then you say insanity could be the peak of innovation. That is what doesn't make any sense.

Is it really that surprising to you that no one decided to permanently kill Tizzy? Do you really need more reason for Tizzy for living that long asside from from others haven't decided on permanently killing him yet? Do you really also think that Tizzy is that annoying that the other demons wants to really excert the effort or permanently killing him? Also, permanently killing a demon isn't like swating a fly you know. It do require a great deal of effort.

Well, true, coincidences is very strange in real world, but not in fiction. Authors has always intercept with logic in the stories to make things interesting. Meeting their true love, meeting a person who just have the skills to solve the problem, someone saving the hero at the nick of time, etc. There are a lot of small and big coincidences staple in fiction. Many authors overdo it and it just kills the story. But you have to acknowledge, without these coincidences, the story would just become mighty boring.

Your position is basically Tom's position.

Tom told me that was his feeling. Talarius cheated. Good guys aren't supposed to cheat.

Now, that being said: Astlanian gods are far from omniscient, so unless Tiernon or one of his reps was watching, they won't know about the cheating...yet.

Of course, the mortals don't know this, and so many may conclude what you did, but experience with these folks means tells me they probably won't reach the same conclusion. Demons are just evil to them, no matter what.

And Talarius and the Rod? Well, remember there are competing pantheons, so while clearly people who worship Etonian Gods (Tiernon and the others) think of them as good; those who worship gods of other pantheons don't particularly see Talarius and the Rod as "good guys" that have to wear a white hat.

What is interesting is that Exador (I think in Book 1, if not then in Book 2) does notes that Talarius was pushing the bounds of what was considered good when he was Vicar General of the Rod and concludes that he (Exador) must have had an influence on the religion.

I am sure Talarius thought Tom would cheat, he's a demon after all.

However, Tom, foolishly if you ask me, thought for some odd reason that Holy Knights in Shining Army were the "good guys" or were supposed to be.

I'm thinking he paid too much attention to the history of Greyhawk and too little attention to the Crusades of Earth's Middle Ages. Of course, if he'd ever been to Westeros, he'd have also known better.

Of course, I have a soft spot for Westeros, you've never been to a wedding until you've been to one in the Riverlands of Westeros. Those are my kind of wedding! Much more fun than the normal stuffy kind. My buddy, Walder, he knows how to put on a shindig! He also knows something about cheating and betrayal...

Yeah,

that makes sense, but a lot of this still have to be processed (book II) the initial reaction is shock, I think.

But yes, lots of different people have different reactions, and that's what book II is about, at least the first half or so, then the rest is the repercussions of those reactions.

The mana stealing is big, it's not supposed to be possible. Also one key point is that for most observers that weren't participants it's probably not completely clear what happened. Unless you were watching with wizard/demon/elvish whatever sight, etc.

However, I can say, as a demon, rather than thinking Tiernon looked weak, most are going to be worried about retaliation from Tiernon and friends. At least that's what I'm worried about.

It would indeed! I'm going to have to tell T-A-G to think about using that!

Retaliation from a God?

"But I'm an enslaved demon. My accused master ordered me to drain your holy Grace/mana to fuel his feindish spells. If you want to retaliate against someone, he is ultimatly responsible."

Yes, I would definitely agree.

Gods don't have a lot of patience, they are not subtle, and they generally don't work in mysterious ways.

As I've mentioned before, a bolt of Blue Lightning is usually the only warning you get, and even then, you're dead.