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Offline Tizzy  
#101 Posted : Wednesday, October 1, 2014 12:32:13 AM(UTC)
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That would be prudent....sort of like a bribe to "look the other way."

If you start sacrificing too few lambs, goats, bulls, whatever, they might want to come investigate...

If that gets their attention, I wonder what taking something the god already had would do?

Offline Rosver  
#102 Posted : Wednesday, October 1, 2014 2:23:34 AM(UTC)
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Well, Tom is a thief, but I think he wont be getting into a prison. I think, when he comes back to the surface, the gods would rain lightning endlessly at him, hit him with a meteor, detonate a nuclear bomb, and burry him in a mountain of stinking socks.
Offline Tizzy  
#103 Posted : Wednesday, October 1, 2014 5:54:12 PM(UTC)
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OK, so I guess I'm not going to be hitching a ride back to Astlan with him....

Offline Madfox11  
#104 Posted : Thursday, October 2, 2014 6:26:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tizzy Go to Quoted Post
OK, so I guess I'm not going to be hitching a ride back to Astlan with him....



Aren't you telling his story to the author guy? So don't you already know what happened when he returned to Astlan? Or did he not return yet in book II? Angel
Offline Tizzy  
#105 Posted : Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:51:38 PM(UTC)
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Yeah well surprise Tom's sort of stuck in the Abyss for a while because he's got this hostage that he really doesn't want to just leave in the Abyss, and doesn't dare take him back where he might escape or send out a distress signal to his god...so we're killing a LOT of time here. You might have noticed, T-A-G is running a bit behind on book 2, that's because I'm stuck in the Abyss and can't find out what others are doing to narrate it.

And I'm also live blogging stuff.

When the others try and tell you that I'm talking to myself? I am actually either narrating to T-A-G or talking to you guys on this forum.
Offline Rosver  
#106 Posted : Friday, October 3, 2014 4:25:54 AM(UTC)
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Oh! It seems book 2 would be soooo boring.
Offline Tizzy  
#107 Posted : Friday, October 3, 2014 8:25:17 PM(UTC)
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For me at least.

Apparently there's some sort of army of angels running rampage over the surface of Astlan or something.

Don't know anything about it though.

I'm just sitting here, bored, flossing my teeth with some of strands of fiberglass from my couch.
Offline Rosver  
#108 Posted : Saturday, October 4, 2014 1:01:22 AM(UTC)
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Army angels. Wow that is a sight to behold! (It also seems to be a great fan art project) Would have wowed astlanians.
Offline Tizzy  
#109 Posted : Saturday, October 4, 2014 4:19:46 PM(UTC)
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Wowed, Mowed (over)...only a small difference I'm sure...

Angels tend to be just as blood thirsty and murderous as demons, they've just got a lot better PR, so everyone thinks they are the good guys, we have really bad PR and so are the evil lunatics!



Offline Rosver  
#110 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2014 1:03:00 PM(UTC)
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That seems to confirm that demons and gods are just the same. It just that they hide in the front of the Good.
Offline Tizzy  
#111 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:47:33 AM(UTC)
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I can certainly get on board with that idea.

However, I will be standing on a rubber mat a couple hundred feet from a large metal pole, while boarding.

Offline Rosver  
#112 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2014 1:46:07 AM(UTC)
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Also why would be angels that vicious? Or is it all only of your jealousy, they being admired and worshiped and all. Is this one of those 'not to be believed' part?
Offline Flakes  
#113 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2014 3:00:32 PM(UTC)
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Just rereading the book.

It occurs to me that priests are a kind of celestial piramid scheme. The lower echelon believers pass mana on to the lower priests who take some, but pass the majority up, through their links, to higher priests, who gather it and pass it still to higher priests, who eventually pass it along to their god.

I can easily see a mid level beurocrat god saying "you cast 10 cure light wounds spell this months, that is 3 over your budget of 7 spells, but over all I saw your gross mana production drop by 3 percent. Will the added cure light wounds that you used increase your overall prayer to follower ratio, or will I have to consider letting you go and replacing you with a graven image?
Offline smw  
#114 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2014 10:28:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rosver Go to Quoted Post
That seems to confirm that demons and gods are just the same. It just that they hide in the front of the Good.


I disagree. It is not only the PR but also the organization. Demons are very feudal. You don't owe any loyalties to anyone except your lord, if even that. You don't dare cross a prince or anything, but you don't feel a purpose. The demon culture is to value strength and enriching yourself with no higher ideals.

Gods on the other hand seem to have a very central organization. Think of the Catholic Church. They have a formal chain of command and a mission. It is the job of those who are lower to serve the cause for the greater glory of their God. Gods also appear to get mana from their subjects which help them maintain overwhelming power over most in their organization.

To put it another way. Exador and Ramses both have a strong power base with many demons who would fight for them. If Ramses decides to declare war on Exador, his demons would follow him into battle. Likely out of fear of Ramses.

If an Archangel A decided to wage war on Archangel B, those who follow A would think he had lost his mind. No one would follow him because the god is the one who appointed B and any grievance should be filed with said god.

Obviously, such things would not be perfect and if infighting does break out, it would make a god look extremely weak, and given that if is the god providing them their mana, it would likely result in immediate defeat (not necessarily immediate death, gods can be cruel).
Offline Tizzy  
#115 Posted : Wednesday, October 8, 2014 12:47:04 AM(UTC)
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That sounds logical to me, and that's what my limited experience with the deific ones implies.
Offline Rosver  
#116 Posted : Thursday, October 9, 2014 8:35:01 AM(UTC)
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@smw:

What your describing is just an assumption and completely baseless. There is nothing actually in the book that describes astlanian god's culture.

But, it is said many times that Tizzy's words can't be trusted either.

@Tizzy:

You are a bit wishy washy.
Offline Tizzy  
#117 Posted : Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:06:43 PM(UTC)
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The book doesn't say anything about any pantheon's culture...however I think you can sort of assume that the structure that worshipers form often mirrors that of the gods' structure.

And on that basis, SMW is probably correct about the Etonians. Tiernon, Torean, Hendel, Krinna, Namora

However, different pantheons may (and do) have completely different cultures.

As for me being unreliable.

There is one person saying that. ONLY ONE, T-A-G, and how reliable is he? Not very if you ask me. So it's his word against mine!





Offline Maou  
#118 Posted : Tuesday, October 21, 2014 10:04:07 PM(UTC)
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Different races and different regions have different gods and these differing pantheons will likely have different mindsets. I know that two humans from the same culture will not be able to agree on a clear view of good, evil, or what their god represents. Its doubtful that different races share the same god. So each pantheon will have different views of good and evil. It blurs boundaries, two "good" deities might view the other as evil, or one could view the other as evil and the other could find the other as annoying for viewing them as evil and be offended.

Angels look attractive and often have a pure look as individuals. People feel safe or secure in their presence. They can form a massive and reduce a continent to ashes and those that died were evil and the survivors were protected by god. Demons do that and everybody has an opposite opinion and view those who died as innocent, survivors have mixed reactions based on circumstance. Some are hellspawn, while others are godsent.

The biggest difference between demons and gods is the lack of order in demonic ranks and the possibility of advancement. An angel can never grow to overpower a god. Well a few might, but most cannot. Concordenax was the closest things demons had to a central figure, when he left demons made blatant factions. The powerful demons tend to ignore weaker demons that don't bother them, so they are heavily decentralized and tend to respect those more powerful than them in a fearful sort of manner. Angels are centralized and can't get away with killing those beneath them.

In conclusion Angels are extremely social and have a rigid hierarchy with little possibility for advancement. A rigid caste system. Demons have a fluid hierarchy and no clear distinction of power beyond this person is the nearest person who can kill me. Demons are also somewhat anti-social do to wizardly intervention, they do make societies amongst themselves at times, but many can and will enjoy staying by themselves. Trust is somthing Angels have, which demons surely lack.
Offline Tizzy  
#119 Posted : Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:40:19 AM(UTC)
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Basically, I'd agree, but we'll see a lot more of this in the Heavenly Horde or whatever it's called. Host, Horde, tomatO, tomAHto

I do have to take exception to the powerful demons ignore lesser demons part of your argument.

If you think that's true, then I'm going to have you go explain that to some demon princes I know....they apparently haven't been playing by your rules, so if you could stop by one of their palaces and set them straight, I'd be much obliged.

Offline Rosver  
#120 Posted : Thursday, October 23, 2014 5:45:15 AM(UTC)
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@Mauo: I have studied stories/myth from various religion and I can say this:

As for god or evil, many gods, especially the pagan ones aren't really good or evil. Often time they are just nossy and obnoxious. Though, for most, the gods are often just neutral. In many mythologies these gods are some sort of means of understanding the natural world, like thunder god to explain why the weather just suddenly become god (the god is angry or something), or the sea god sending a storm because it is displeased (very much like the story of Jonah). Basicaly these gods are means to explain natural phenomenons and many gods stay just that and often doesn't intervene much with humans.

Angels is very rare in mythologies. It is most recognized in Christian and Muslim but many 'pagan' religions has no concept of angels. Angels also haven't been described clearly in any religious literature. The image of the angel we see now (winged humans) could not be found in the Bible.

What you described as demonic culture is also fitingly describes many pagan gods. The Roman gods for example almost matches the descriptions perfectly. With Zues being a central figure and other gods often working independently from each other, and lesser gods often are out of the picture.

Astlanian angels and demons seems to work that way, though I think demons though have a lot of trust with each other. The large city (Court of Chaos) requires a lot of trust for it to be build and maintained (even though many demons are unrully), and a large amount of trust is required for the demons to live that close to earch other. If they don't, then demons should be living solitarily (like bears or tigers) and would have fight when they come to view with each other.
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